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Ianto Little Smile

December 2014

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I'd Hit It

I'm Fuming!

Okay, how long have I been posting stuff over on Teaspoon? 31 short fics, 293 drabbles, never had anything rejected.

Until yesterday.




Yesterday I decided it was about time I started putting the rest of the Nosy-Verse stories on the site - I'd only got around to putting the first couple and the more recent ones there, four of the earlier ones still hadn't been posted and I'd gained a new reader who was asking if there were more. Seemed like the right time so I posted 'How To Live With A Neurotic Alien'.

I know the rules there, they expect an acceptable standard of writing - spelling, grammar, punctuation, all up to a reasonable standard. Well, hope I don't sound boastful, but I always considered I was above average in that respect. Sure, I'm not always entirely spot-on when it comes to punctuation, not certain of the rules regarding colons and semi-colons, and I overuse commas at times, but hey, that's not too bad, right? And at least I know how to use apostrophes. Certainly, I think I meet the 'acceptable standard' criteria - they do say they don't expect perfection. After all, these are fanfics, not great works of literature.

But my fic got rejected by a mod who apparently isn't going to accept anything that isn't 100% correct, punctuation-wise. I got called on half a dozen minor errors. Okay, yes, I had a missing quotation mark, and two others that got accidentally left in during re-writes. At least I USE quotation marks, and it should be perfectly clear that I know where they belong, considering I use them correctly throughout the entire 4026 word story apart from those three instances. And yes, I wasn't completely clear on the rules of commas versus full stops when a speech by someone is broken into sections to include their actions. Big deal. How many people can quote chapter and verse on that rule anyway? How many people even know there IS a rule for that? It's nit-picking, tiny things that 99.9% or readers would either not notice, or not even realise were wrong. I spent an hour re-editing to fit this person's perfectionist standards before re-submitting it, and if it gets rejected again, I will NOT be happy.  >=(

I feel sorry for everyone who tries to post there and is perhaps less familiar with the rules of punctuation and grammar, or isn't too good at spelling. If they get the same moderator I did, it could well put them off writing for life!

To this person, 'acceptable standards' apparently means every fic must meet their stringent personal standards and be perfect in all respects. I think they need to check their dictionary.




Rant over, feel free to ignore this post, I wrote it to make myself feel better, but it doesn't seem to have worked.

Comments

Oh, good grief. That mod needs to chill out and realize that fan fiction is for fun, not English homework to be graded and sent back for further editing purposes.

I'll send a few of my computer ninja warriors to kick her a few times.

I do hope the story posted the second time around. Even if you shouldn't have had to do the second submission. Everyone needs to have the love that is Nosy available to them.

*hugs*
No news yet on whether it's been accepted, it can take a day or more for the longer fics.

I can understand the mods being strict if there are a lot of really bad errors, and I respect that, but they are MODS, not betas, they shouldn't be seeking out every error. What next? Are they going to cite bad grammar because dialogue is written the way the characters speak instead of in grammatically correct form?

While writing standards on Teaspoon are better than on ff.net, there are still fics being let through that have a hell of a lot more - and more obvious - mistakes than mine did. It was the sheer pickiness that annoyed me, especially as its stated that they don't expect perfection.

Thanks, Ninja warriors gratefully accepted!
When I first started writing fan fic I was quite soundly rejected. Rightly so I now know. But they did not offer any clue as to where to go for help or feedback. They did not say "good story work on it." Just basically a F*** off. I forget now, but it was one of the huge Buffy sites. Someone somewhere suggested Livejournal and I never looked back and have never had my work posted there. I am glad I did not let the perfectionists get me down before I had even gotten up.
Yeah, some sites are just too finnicky and don't give people a chance to improve, or even any guidance. i guess that's why ff.nert is so popular - it doesn't matter if you can't spell, have no idea of good grammer and don't know an apostrophe from a hole in the ground - you can still post your stories there and maybe even get some constructive criticism and help with improving.

I'm not saying Teaspoon is wrong for moderating their site - they're not - but they say they don't expect perfection, then start picking fault out of the blue with tiny mistakes. It pissed me off, but I can handle it, I'm tough. Other writers might find that extreme perfectionism daunting though, they might not handle rejection so well.

On the plus side, the mod did provide links to find the information needed to get my fic up to their exacting standards - though I did find the inclusion of a link to the proper usage of quotation marks insulting. I did substantial rewriting before I posted the fic originally on my LJ and I guess I accidentally left in a couple of quotation marks that shouldn't have been there. Considering the amount of dialogue in the fic, it should have been obvious that was an oversight, not a lack of knowledge about correct usage.

I'm glad you didn't give up =)
*hugs*

That is one of the reasons why I tend to avoid Fandom-Specific posting places. You should post over on AO3, your fic won't be rejected because of a few little typing errors and some misplaced commas.

This person really needs to re-evaluate their Mod-status if they're nit-picking and rejecting stories based on that, considering I've read fics over on Teaspoon where characters are WILDLY out of character, and the character bashing is rife - especially among the Rose, Martha, Donna, Amy fans.
I do post on AO3. And LJ, dreamwidth and ff.net, lol! I have dedicated readers on all the sites, posting to them all is a juggling act but I do it because... Well, I guess because I like the thought that everyone can find and read my fics if they want to.

I can only think this must be a new moderator who doesn't understand their role. They're not there to beta every fic that comes along to within an inch of its life. They're there to check that the standard of writing is acceptable, not flawless according to their personal standards. I've read fics there littered with spelling mistakes, bad grammar and atrocious punctuation, but I get rejected for mistakes that few people would be aware of. Smacks of double standards.

On the other hand, I now know something I didn't - or at least something I's forgotten in the 36 years since I left school, lol!

Thanks! *hugs* It's a good thing I'm tough!
Oh, yes. I too find Whofic moderation policies completely annoying (and rather inconsistent. There's one popular writer that has so many punctuation and grammar errors that it drives me crazy but the mods let the stories through anyway). And yet, I had a story in which I purposefully did not cap Cyberman (there was a reason I wanted it lower case throughout). Anyway, when I got the email saying it had gotten approved, there was a snotty paragraph informing me of my error (with a link to a site about proper punctuation and grammar) and letting me know that the moderator had made the changes to correct it. Without MY approval to alter the story.

Sorry you went through that - I understand it's a private site with specific rules but the way the various mods enforce (or outright ignore) the "acceptable standards" is ridiculous.

Keep writing though! I enjoy all your drabbles and stories - and once work slows down enough so I can have free time, I'll be diving in to catch up.
They need to standardise their standards and not make changes without permission, that's an atrocious breach of their privileges!

I've never had anything rejected before, in the 18 months or so since I became a member. Nor was I aware that they can change things in my fics without my express permission. They're mods, not beta readers. I'll be paying more attention to my messages from them in future, I haven't been reading them lately, just deleting them. Wonder how many times they've picked fault despite accepting my fics. They need to get over themselves, or start being more even-handed when it comes to accepting or rejecting stories based on what they see as errors.

Don't worry, I'm writing busily. One nit-picking mod won't derail me. I post to 5 sites and while I don't want to stop posting at Teaspoon, I have that option if they start overstepping and editing my stories without my permission. That's something I won't tolerate.
That's why I loathe sites like that. If for some reason someone doesn't like you they will nit pick everything.
Can't imagine what I might have done to piss them off. Maybe they don't like fluff, lol!

I had no idea they could be so picky, especially considering some of the fics I've read there. *shrugs* They just better not start editing my fics without my permission! Certain things should be up to the writer's dicretion.
I've had a few problems like yours. When I was posting Ianto's Journey there was one mod who couldn't understand why Ianto's 'speech' (actually what he typed on his mobile phone) was in italics. So, yeah, I have 50 chapters accepted that way and now you want me to change all of them. How about no. Took some back and forth but s/he finally let it through after subjecting me her righteous 'tude.
Sounds to me like some of the so-called Moderators need to grow up and learn the difference between moderating to ensure a reasonable standard of writing and trying to force their own views on how a writer should format their work. Formatting, and the choice of where to use italics or bold to denote something, should be the writer's choice. It's one thing to point out glaring errors in punctuation, spelling or grammar, but beyond that they're interfering with the writer's self-expression and that is seriously overstepping the boundaries. Writing is very personal.

Never having had a problem before - at least, not that I'm aware of, it came as a shock that they could be so finicky when they state that they don't expect perfection. they're certainly fast enough to find fault. I wonder what age range the mods fall into... And if they actually write creatively themselves.
Even I, the editor, have issues here and there. We simply don't always see them as we're writing or reading through our own work. I edit for a living. That doesn't make me perfect.

While grammar and obvious sentence structure errors make me nuts, an occasional error is to be expected. I have them, other people have them. ARGH. That would just make me nuts.
I may not be a professional editor, but I've been a beta for years. I admit my punctuation isn't perfect, it's 36 years since I was at school, I've forgotten a few rules of punctuation but I'm not that bad. While the site has the right to expect a reasonable standard of writing, for their rules to say that they don't expect perfection and then to pick fault with a few commas that in their opinion should be full stops strikes me as nit-picking. Especially when I see some of what gets let through.

Besides, they're mods, not editors. Two very different things. Mods check that writing is readable and of an acceptable standard, it's not their job to correct what they see as errors, nor is it their job to go through something and point out every error or assumed they find when they've already said writing dorsn't have to be perfect, just an acceptable standard. I believe the fic I submitted was at least as 'acceptable' as anything else I've posted to the site. I still haven't heard yet whether it has been accepted this time or rejected again.
You give some people a little power, and they go bananas with it. Sounds like that applies to this mod. Do you use FanFiction.net, or Ao3? Nevermind, just read the comment that says you do. :)

A question. Why are there no links to author's other posting sites on LJ? Sometimes people will mention another site, but how do you find them on it without a link?

Also, I've read a lot of fics with bad grammar, terrible punctuation, etc., but the plot and writing was so good otherwise that I would have hated to miss out on reading it because of some grammar/punctuation fanatic. Course I've read some where the grammar/punctuation/spelling was so full of egregious errors that it didn't matter how good the plot was, I could not wade through the mistakes.



Edited at 2014-03-01 09:25 pm (UTC)
Why are there no links to author's other posting sites on LJ? Some people do put links, others don't. I should, but I've forgotten how to do it. I'll have to look up my instructions again, lol!

I've read some that are well written too but just not engaging. Sometimes ideas maske up for execution, other times there's just no salvaging anything readable.

Antway, my fic was approved second time, which is a relief. But the next one I have to put up on the site is twice as long and I'll have to re-edit it before I submit it. I don't want to go through that again, so I'll check it over first.
Wow, this makes me glad I never started posting there. Although I now have the sudden urge to try to start posting Deathless there, because I know there are errors in it (and one day I might get around to correcting some of them) since it was the fourth ever story I wrote. (I'd have more fun trying to get Plain of Sorrows past, but wrong fandom. I reread that one yesterday and apparently in my first story ever I was very fond of ellipses.)

Anyway, being a beta too I know I'm not perfect, but if I'd wanted to have anything proofread I would, of course, ask my usual beta to do it for me. Not have some random mod critique it.
Yeah, that's what irritated me. I usually self beta, but when I send someting off to a beta, that's my choice. Then I'm quite happy to accept critique because I'm asking for it. Having a stranger pick my work apart because it doesn't fit their arbitrary standards is rather insulting. I've never claimed I was perfect, especially when it comes to certain aspects of punctuation, but I've seen far worse approved without problem. Hell, I've seen NOVELS published that are full of worse mistakes than my little fanfic. They seem to be under the mistaken impression that the Teaspoon site is some kind of high-end publication that can demand excellence in writing instead of an archive for fanfiction.

Still, at least the fic got approved second try.
I am shocked! That YOU of all people would have a story rejected for lack of knowledge about grammar rules is simply ridiculous. Especially for a few random quotation marks, when you used them correctly throughout on actual dialogue, so it's obvious they were an oversight. Sounds like someone is taking their role way, way too seriously. I'm sorry that happened to you and I hope your revisions make the cut.

I stopped posting there years ago. The site never seemed that welcoming to me, I didn't find the interface to post very intuitive (it might have changed now) and comments were few and far between. LJ, ff.net, and AO3 have been far more enjoyable, interactive experiences.

*HUGS*

moved from where I originally posted it in the wrong place. Clearly, I don't find ANY interface very intuitive. LOL!

Edited at 2014-03-01 10:50 pm (UTC)
It's not the best place for getting reviews, but there are some people there who HAVE left reviews and for their sake, I'd like to continue posting.

The revised version was accepted, but of course I have no idea if it was by the same mod that rejected it first time around.

Yeah, I think the power has gone to this mod's head. It's fine that they're checking to make sure thev standard of writing on the site is good, but they should be consistent and make sure all the mods understand that they are NOT supposed to be picking apart everything that has been written. They're not betas. A couple of people have mentioned that not only have punctuation and grammar mistakes been targeted but also the use of italics and capitals, which surely should be up to the author. Yes, there are places where capitals SHOULD always be used, but there are others which should be the author's choice. They have no right to dictate how an author writes, the style or the layout - providing it has paragraphs. What next?
OMG! if that happens to you that I have never spotted a spelling mistakes in your writings, who can the rest of us expect?
I don't read too much there but I have found fics with worse mistakes than the one on spellings .....
Let them rot !
LOL! Yeah, so have I. I'm not perfect, I find mistakes in my fics AFTER posting them and I have to go around correcting them because it annoys me. The Teaspoon Mod was just being unbelievably picky, considering the things I've read over there that were accepted. I'll have to check everything carefully before posting there in future.

Ok. I rarely go into Blunt American-mode, but this just begs for it. Here goes: what utter bullshit! Fanfic is for fun. Most of us aren't in school any longer. Not everyone has English as a first language. Not everyone has the aptitude to be a truly great writer. I'm lucky that I had brilliant English teachers throughout my entire education & that I have a talent for writing full-stop. Not everyone does. That mod...Well. I see "Power Trip" written all over that response. I only ever post here on LJ and now AO3. I've never received criticism for my work in any negative way. My suggestion? Call the mod out. PM this grammar Nazi & tell her/him everything you talk about here. I'd be curious as to their answer. Your writing is top-shelf!
Only trouble is, I don't know how to contact the mods and I deleted the email after I re-edited my fic. *shrugs* It got accepted this time, so did my latest drabble. I'm actually interested to see what happens in future, lol! The thing is, while I was flaming mad about such petty nit-picking, it didn't do me any harm. But other writers? People who don't have such tough shells? It could wreck the confidence of young writers. That's why, despite the atrocious standards of writing I often see on ff.net, I applaud their willingness to just let anyone post what they write. Kids of all levels of ability can start writing there and learn by doing, along with constructive and helpful criticism. Yeah, some writers on the site are just doing it to have people tell them how brilliant and clever they are and don't seem to give a damn about how badly they write, but there are many genuine aspiring writers who want to see if they can do it and who want to learn and improve. Teaspoon seems to want everything strictly regimented to their own ideas of how people should write. You can't corral creativity that way, it'll just stagnate.
And yes, I wasn't completely clear on the rules of commas versus full stops when a speech by someone is broken into sections to include their actions. Big deal. How many people can quote chapter and verse on that rule anyway? How many people even know there IS a rule for that?

You know I made A's and B's in composition in college though my spelling sucks, anyway...I didn't know this rule existed either and I love to use my annoying .... all the time. lol! This person needs to get a life. How ridiculous. So sorry she is being a jerk.

Are there other places you post? Maybe this is not such a good place to post your wonderful fic.

Edited at 2014-03-02 08:40 am (UTC)
I have 5 accounts I post to, I like to spread my fic around, and I have readers on each site. I've never had a problem with Teaspoon before, but this was just so petty.

Stil, the fic was accepted after I'd done the editing they required to bring my fic up to 'acceptable standards', LOL! Half the fics on that site have worse punctuation, plus bad grammar and spelling, yet still get accepted. I don't plan on jumping through hoops for them next time. What annoyed me was that I had a reader there who wanted to read the other Nosy-Verse fics and I had to spend an hour editing that one before it would be accepted. I think that mod had too much time on their hands so decided to pick my fic apart.

How are you doing? *hugs tight*
Aw that sucks! Did you have more luck when you submitted the re-edited version? I hope so! (because as far as I know, you are really not bad at grammar and punctuation...)
It was accepted when I re-submitted it. I just don't get why they were so picky when I've seen fics there with far worse punctuation, plus bad spelling and grammar. They say they don't expect perfection, but it seems that's what they were demanding from my fic while letting others through with more errors. I'm thinking one of the mods got rather over-zealous and overstepped the boundaries. If I want my fics betaed, I ask someone I know and trust to do it. I have several good friends I can turn to, I'm not going to ask a complete stranger, nor do I expect someone to beta my fic without my permission and then tell me I can't post it there until I've fixed what they see as mistakes. Where will it end? Are they going to start dictating content? From a couple of replies here, it seems they've already tried to do that with a couple of people.
I know that is horrible for you and you're right to be fuming, and personally, I would never even consider posting at an archive with such an amount of paternalism... But despite all that, I'm simply sitting here, cracking up XD Because that mod needs to be exposed to an (un)healthy dose of FFnet writers, seriously! XD No one would ever again post on Teaspoon LOL

PS: Am still working on your icons. Sorry, they'll be a little longer.
There's no rush, I'm just thrilled at the thought of getting icons made for me!

Yeah, that mod would have a nervous breakdown, lol!

In a crazy way, that's why I like ff.net. Yes, there is a lot of atrocious writing but it gives everyone an equal chance of posting their efforts, regardless of ability. The best way to leasrn how to write is to start writing and get feedback and on ff.net, anyone can do that. Teaspoon has higher standards, but isn't usually as critical as this mod was. Was irritated me was seeing the minor mistakes I was being called on after seeing fics approved with far worse mistakes. To say they don't expect perfection, then to demand exactly that from me before they'd approve my fic smacks of double standards. I don't claim to be perfect, especially not in terms of punctuation - I've forgotten things since I left school some 36 years ago - but I'm very critical of my own work, I edit repeatedly until I'm happy with the result and I've never before been made to feel that I'm not good enough. That's okay with me, I'm a mature adult, i can handle it, but others are more sensitive and I hate to think about what such a blunt rejection could do to their confidence as aspiring writers.
Oh my God! Poor you. They are mad and this is so unfair. Such people take all the fun out of writing. They could teach at a German School. ;)
I certainly would never post anything there. HA-HA!

*hugs*
It's the only time I've had problems posting there, so hopefully it was just a mod having a bad day. I just found it annoying having to spend an hour re-editing just to get something posted. I'm short of time as it is. Ah well, that's life I guess. *shrugs*

Thank you! *hugs back*
HUGS!!!
Thank you! *hugs back*

I haven't had any problems since, maybe the mod was having a bad day.